Craig Groeschel made the following points on the Practical Atheist video, made at Catalyst, that we watched and discussed at the 1/26/08 CCV Men - Breakfast. I added questions for a discussion on each point.
1. We believe our effort is better than God’s power.
· Has this ever appeared in your life?
· How do you think you can change this thinking?
2. We believe our private life doesn’t affect our public life / ministry.
· What does this mean to you?
· Has your private life made it difficult to influence someone for Christ?
· How do you think you can change this?
3. We believe we must please people more than we must please God.
· Ever done something just because everyone else was doing it?
· Give an example of how / when you have tried to please others. How did it work out? How did you feel?
· How do you think you can change this?
Ponder these points and questions. Any thoughts?
Sunday, January 27, 2008
Sunday, January 20, 2008
CCV Mission
My response to a blog post at Brian Jones.com from someone named John regarding feedback on Christ’s Church of the Valley.
Go to Brian Jones.com to read the original post from John on January, 18, 2008.
http://www.brianjones.com/
Obviously John has hit a nerve or two with his comments to Brian. What is more surprising to me is the judgment and defensiveness displayed in some of the responses to John’s post.
For me this all boils down to the mission of CCV which is to love God, love others and love the world. The basis for the mission is the Great Commission (Matt 28:19–20) “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age" and the Greatest Commandment (Mark 12:30-31) which states “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.'[a] 31The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.b]. There is no commandment greater than these."
The two areas that are of most concern to me on John’s post are worship and connecting because this is important to loving God and to loving others..
Worship. Worship can and should occur at all times during the service. I think anything that interrupts another person’s ability to worship and develop a stronger relationship with God is a problem. Music that is difficult for people to sing or understand, people eating or drinking, people moving to empty seats during prayer, the band not connecting with the crowd and anything else. We can’t control everything but we need to control what we can.
Just a note on music. The reason that easy to sing and easy to remember songs are important is that the words can be a source of strength and/or inspiration during the week when someone encounters a difficult situation and they are able to remember the words. An example for me was a song that contained an easy to remember chorus containing the words from Proverbs 3:5-6.
Connecting. Jesus calls us to serve by his example of washing the feet of others in John 13:1-17. We are expected to be proactive and to reach out to others not expect others to reach out to us. I would encourage you to meet one or two people or families you don’t know every Sunday and make them feel welcome and at home at CCV. Get to know them better and find out their interests and needs and then you make the effort to connect them to a Ministry area or a Home Team that is the best fit for them. This is not a one size fits all type of thing.
I have been to a number of churches where no one made an effort to introduce themselves to me and as a result I never went back to any of those churches..
John, I wanted to wait outside all three services today with a sign that said ‘Are you John’ but I didn’t want to draw attention to you. If I had the chance to meet you I would have asked you if working with teens is an area that is of interest to you. If so, I would have tried to introduce you to Matt Silver who is the director of Student Ministries and encourage you to visit Impact and Riot on Sunday night.
I would also have asked you about attending a men’s Home Team. If that was of interest I would have tried to introduce you to one of the Men’s Home team leaders or to Frank Chiapperino or Terri Stone who are both in Adult Ministries as well as encouraged you to visit one or more of these Home Teams.
I believe it is all about living like Jesus and showing his love. One way we can get better at doing that is by praying and asking God to get our heart right and asking Him how to deal with these types of issues.
Go to Brian Jones.com to read the original post from John on January, 18, 2008.
http://www.brianjones.com/
Obviously John has hit a nerve or two with his comments to Brian. What is more surprising to me is the judgment and defensiveness displayed in some of the responses to John’s post.
For me this all boils down to the mission of CCV which is to love God, love others and love the world. The basis for the mission is the Great Commission (Matt 28:19–20) “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age" and the Greatest Commandment (Mark 12:30-31) which states “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.'[a] 31The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.b]. There is no commandment greater than these."
The two areas that are of most concern to me on John’s post are worship and connecting because this is important to loving God and to loving others..
Worship. Worship can and should occur at all times during the service. I think anything that interrupts another person’s ability to worship and develop a stronger relationship with God is a problem. Music that is difficult for people to sing or understand, people eating or drinking, people moving to empty seats during prayer, the band not connecting with the crowd and anything else. We can’t control everything but we need to control what we can.
Just a note on music. The reason that easy to sing and easy to remember songs are important is that the words can be a source of strength and/or inspiration during the week when someone encounters a difficult situation and they are able to remember the words. An example for me was a song that contained an easy to remember chorus containing the words from Proverbs 3:5-6.
Connecting. Jesus calls us to serve by his example of washing the feet of others in John 13:1-17. We are expected to be proactive and to reach out to others not expect others to reach out to us. I would encourage you to meet one or two people or families you don’t know every Sunday and make them feel welcome and at home at CCV. Get to know them better and find out their interests and needs and then you make the effort to connect them to a Ministry area or a Home Team that is the best fit for them. This is not a one size fits all type of thing.
I have been to a number of churches where no one made an effort to introduce themselves to me and as a result I never went back to any of those churches..
John, I wanted to wait outside all three services today with a sign that said ‘Are you John’ but I didn’t want to draw attention to you. If I had the chance to meet you I would have asked you if working with teens is an area that is of interest to you. If so, I would have tried to introduce you to Matt Silver who is the director of Student Ministries and encourage you to visit Impact and Riot on Sunday night.
I would also have asked you about attending a men’s Home Team. If that was of interest I would have tried to introduce you to one of the Men’s Home team leaders or to Frank Chiapperino or Terri Stone who are both in Adult Ministries as well as encouraged you to visit one or more of these Home Teams.
I believe it is all about living like Jesus and showing his love. One way we can get better at doing that is by praying and asking God to get our heart right and asking Him how to deal with these types of issues.
Friday, January 11, 2008
Free Will
After a discussion last night about free will, I got thinking about the topic and the discussion we had. One area that was interesting was the influence others (Radio and TV preachers were mentioned specifically) can have on new believers .
It was interesting that a few people thought we needed to jump in right away and rescue those who were being (wrongly) influenced or misled. Others just listened to the discussion.
What began to occur to me this morning was that some of us believe that God has given us free will to make our own choices but we may not be willing to give others that free will and let them make their own choices whether right or wrong.
I believe we have to let people make their own decisions, stumble around a little, get bruised and bloody and encourage them to seek the truth. Kind of like the prodigal son.
It’s a little like raising kids. If you do everything for your kids during their life then you are creating adults who have difficulty functioning because they don’t know how to exist on their own.
If you create a relationship based on trust with new believers you won’t have to do everything for them. You can direct and encourage them and point out what they should watch for along the journey. Hopefully we are learning all of that from God and that will help others.
We were encouraged last night to understand two views related to free will. Were we being rescued? I think we were encouraged to seek and learn and go down whatever paths we need to while seeking to get closer to God.
Maturity, strength and growth come from learning and changing after making mistakes. No one else can do it for us. After all Jesus doesn’t stop us every time we are going to sin. But he is always there for us.
He lets us out there on our own. He wants us to live for Him and become more like Him because we love Him and we want to honor and glorify Him. It should be all about God
It was interesting that a few people thought we needed to jump in right away and rescue those who were being (wrongly) influenced or misled. Others just listened to the discussion.
What began to occur to me this morning was that some of us believe that God has given us free will to make our own choices but we may not be willing to give others that free will and let them make their own choices whether right or wrong.
I believe we have to let people make their own decisions, stumble around a little, get bruised and bloody and encourage them to seek the truth. Kind of like the prodigal son.
It’s a little like raising kids. If you do everything for your kids during their life then you are creating adults who have difficulty functioning because they don’t know how to exist on their own.
If you create a relationship based on trust with new believers you won’t have to do everything for them. You can direct and encourage them and point out what they should watch for along the journey. Hopefully we are learning all of that from God and that will help others.
We were encouraged last night to understand two views related to free will. Were we being rescued? I think we were encouraged to seek and learn and go down whatever paths we need to while seeking to get closer to God.
Maturity, strength and growth come from learning and changing after making mistakes. No one else can do it for us. After all Jesus doesn’t stop us every time we are going to sin. But he is always there for us.
He lets us out there on our own. He wants us to live for Him and become more like Him because we love Him and we want to honor and glorify Him. It should be all about God
Sunday, January 6, 2008
January 26 - Practical Athiest
Craig Groeschel is the Pastor of LifeChurch.tv. At the January 26, 2008, CCV Men – Breakfast we will watch and discuss a video from the 2007 Catalyst Conference where Craig delivered an inspiring message on the topic of being a Practical Atheist. The scripture that he uses is Isaiah 29:13-14 and this states that we honor Him with our mouth but our hearts are far from Him.
Following is a post from Craig which appeared on his blog, Swerve, regarding Practical Atheists. Check Craig’s blog (see the link below) for the post and the comments.
***********************************
Practical Atheists
Sometimes I’m a “practical atheist.”
Spiritually, I believe in God. But practically, I live as if He doesn’t exist.
If I REALLY trusted God, I wouldn’t worry so much.
If I REALLY believed it was His church and not mine, I’d sleep better.
If I REALLY believed in prayer, I’d spend less time strategizing and more time on my knees.
What about you?
Fill in the blanks:
If I REALLY believed _____________, I’d _______________.
I pray God stirs our hearts to live as if we really believe!
**********************************
Questions we will be asking at the breakfast:
Are you a practical Atheist?
If you are, do you want to change that?
Do you have the courage?
Plan on being there and bringing other men with you! Forward this to several other men you know at CCV.
Do some research at the following sites:
http://www.lifechurch.tv/p/741/Default.aspx
http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/05/04/practical-atheists/
http://www.leadingsmart.com/leadingsmart/2007/10/craig-groeschel.html
Following is a post from Craig which appeared on his blog, Swerve, regarding Practical Atheists. Check Craig’s blog (see the link below) for the post and the comments.
***********************************
Practical Atheists
Sometimes I’m a “practical atheist.”
Spiritually, I believe in God. But practically, I live as if He doesn’t exist.
If I REALLY trusted God, I wouldn’t worry so much.
If I REALLY believed it was His church and not mine, I’d sleep better.
If I REALLY believed in prayer, I’d spend less time strategizing and more time on my knees.
What about you?
Fill in the blanks:
If I REALLY believed _____________, I’d _______________.
I pray God stirs our hearts to live as if we really believe!
**********************************
Questions we will be asking at the breakfast:
Are you a practical Atheist?
If you are, do you want to change that?
Do you have the courage?
Plan on being there and bringing other men with you! Forward this to several other men you know at CCV.
Do some research at the following sites:
http://www.lifechurch.tv/p/741/Default.aspx
http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/05/04/practical-atheists/
http://www.leadingsmart.com/leadingsmart/2007/10/craig-groeschel.html
Saturday, January 5, 2008
Choose the Life - Discipleship
This is another post from the book 'Choose the Life' by Bill Hull.
In chapter 2, Hull states: 'The purpose of discipleship is to go deeper with God, to be shaped into the image of Christ, because character is developed in community. If we are following the New Testament model, discipleship should look like this today:
1. - A disciple submits to a teacher who teaches him or her how to follow Jesus.
2. - A disciple learns Jesus' words.
3. - A disciple learns Jesus' way of ministry.
4. - A disciple imitates Jesus' life and character.
5. - A disciple finds and teaches other disciples for Jesus.
...the most common characteristics are 2, 3 and 4'.
'The reasons characteristics 2 through 4 are most common is that they are the least challenging of the five. Frankly, people can do these without having to change. It goes back to the indictment that we have found ways to be Christian without becoming Christlike. Items 1 and 5 make it all work'.
'The frightening truth is that most Christians fail to even do 2 through 4, let alone 1 and 5. But what scares me more is that we can practice 2 through 4 alone and be considered mature Christian leaders. The fact that we avoid submission and seldom evangelize and disciple is a troublesome fact of the body of Christ'.
'Before we can make disciples, however, we must be disciples...It is a commitment to be transformed; it is a choice we make, an intention to live the way Jesus lived'.
Where are you in relation to the 5 characteristics?
In chapter 2, Hull states: 'The purpose of discipleship is to go deeper with God, to be shaped into the image of Christ, because character is developed in community. If we are following the New Testament model, discipleship should look like this today:
1. - A disciple submits to a teacher who teaches him or her how to follow Jesus.
2. - A disciple learns Jesus' words.
3. - A disciple learns Jesus' way of ministry.
4. - A disciple imitates Jesus' life and character.
5. - A disciple finds and teaches other disciples for Jesus.
...the most common characteristics are 2, 3 and 4'.
'The reasons characteristics 2 through 4 are most common is that they are the least challenging of the five. Frankly, people can do these without having to change. It goes back to the indictment that we have found ways to be Christian without becoming Christlike. Items 1 and 5 make it all work'.
'The frightening truth is that most Christians fail to even do 2 through 4, let alone 1 and 5. But what scares me more is that we can practice 2 through 4 alone and be considered mature Christian leaders. The fact that we avoid submission and seldom evangelize and disciple is a troublesome fact of the body of Christ'.
'Before we can make disciples, however, we must be disciples...It is a commitment to be transformed; it is a choice we make, an intention to live the way Jesus lived'.
Where are you in relation to the 5 characteristics?
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